sock puppet. >> all you do is stoop to attacks, rather than deal with the subject. it's clear you don't know how to deal with the subject -- [overlapping dialogue] >> sensational. >> as always, thanks for being with us. greta's next to go "on the record." >> we are concerned with the evidence we got in the information from the consulate, leading up to the attack. >> i am more troubled today, after meeting with the director of the cia and ambassador rice because it's essential clear from the beginning that we knew that those with ties to al qaeda were involved in the attack on the embassy. >> i specifically asked her

whether at any point prior to going on the sunday morning television show, she was briefed or... urged to say certain things by anybody in the white house, relate to the campaign or political operations. she said, no, she was not given messaging points at all by the white house, prior to her appearance on those sunday morning shows. >> it is clear that the informs that she gave the american people was incorrect when she said that it was a spontaneous demonstration ib spired by a hateful video. it was not. and there was compelling evidence at the time that that was certainly not the case. >> bottom line, i am more disturbed now than i was before the 16th september... explanation about how four americans died in benghazi, libya, by ambassador rice. i think it does not do justice

to the reality at the time and in hindsight, clearly was completely wrong. >> there are no unanswered questions... about ambassador rice's appearance on sunday shows. the talking points that she used for those appearances that were provided by the intelligence community. those questions have been answered. >> when you have a position where you'rer -- your ambassador to the united nations, you go well beyond unclassified talking points in your daily preparation and responsibilities for that job. and that's troubling to me, as well. >> all kisay, the concerns i have are greater today than they were before. and weare not even close to getting to the basic answers. >> did we find out anything from today's meeting? ambassador john bolton is here. your thoughts on the meeting with ambassador rice on capitol hill. >> from susan rice's point of

view, this is a disaster, an opportunity to try to draw the sting out of the opposition that had been expressed by senator mccain and the others. obviously went in the opposite direction, when have you all three senator who is participated in the meeting, coming out after saying they have more questions now than they did before. this was a bad meeting, no doubt about it. i think part of the problem here is the continued focus by the white house, by susan rice, by people looking at it, on these so-called talk points that somebody provided to her. i will just put it this way, based on my own experience in government, nobody who's truly competent reads talking points for any purpose. if you are good enough to be a senior american official, you ought to be able to use your own words. i am not saying you make up policy. you obviously follow policy, as set by the president. but the notion that you can be a cabinet-level official and be given talking points that you

simply parrot without further questioning is mind-boggling to me. >> it is interesting, senator harry reid issued a statement, saying there were personal attacks against ambassador rice. he said the a number of things. but he said, she has done nothing wrong. here's what i don't get. no one said she did anything wrong -- at least as i understand it, they are saying she didn't do her job, to ask simple question, instead of just -- as you say, parrot. but she is like a robot. so is jay carney. they repeat what they are told and they don't exercise good judgment and ask questions, saying how do you know that? why do you know that? if they did ask the questions, we ought to know. it is not that they are bad people. but they don't have good judgment to ask questions. >> look, there are basically two ways you can perform in the government at a senior level. you can be the tool of you're bureaucracy. i have known secretaries of

state that i would put in that category, or you can be a real policy leader that. frequently means, it inevitably means questioning and challenging what the bureaucracy serves up to you. but i think if you -- if you don't perform that role, then you are not performing to the expectation of being a senior official in the government. that's why i say, there are two basic philosophies of how you perform in government here. if you want to promote somebody who reads talking points, that's fine. i believe the president should basically get his nominee for executive-branch positions. but if that's what you want, that's the defense eye just read my talking points. that's the way she will be as secretary of state, too. >> maybe we should have written submissions and not have people go on television -- >> why have a secretary of state? why not have -- the libya arrest officer make the policy. >> the first question i would have asked is simply, how do you

know that? why do you know that? especially in the face of something so bizarre, when it was so obvious eye think, not just with 20/20 hindsight. i think most people thought it was a terror attack. so if i were being briefed and someone said it was a video special a protest, i would say, how do you know that? it doesn't look that way to me. how do you know that? >> it's a question of what is served up is the alphaand the omega or whether that's the beginning of the discussion. i got into my fair share of trouble with the bureaucracy, this was the beginning of the conversation, not the end of the conversation. i want to know, why didn't hillary clinton go on the five morning talk shows? that question has not been answered. her taking responsibility for what happened in benghazi on the day of the last presidential debate, in my opinion, doesn't answer the question. where was hillary clinton on september 16th? >> let me ask a question -- do

you think, obviously, we are all playing the game who, will be the next secretary of state to replace secretary clinton. many think it will be ambassador rice. but senator john kerry had been the thought for many, many months until recently. jure thoughts on john kerry as secretary of state as opposed to susan rice, as a nominee? >> i am always in favor of u.n. ambassadors making something of themselves when they finish at the u.n. if the president wants to have a fight he thinks he can win, he can get a fight with susan rice. let's be crass about this. i think the president thinks he's on a roll. i think he thinks republicans are going to fold like a cheap suit on taxes and entitlements. i think ultimately he thinks they will fold on susan rice, too. my guess is, he nominates her. he thinks he is going to win and he emerges stronger. if republicans want to take a position on susan rice, they better be prepared to think

through the implication and not hand the president a victory he doesn't deserve. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you. senator john thune is here and joining us. >> good evening, greta. >> have you seen anything to indicate we are close to a resolution or moving in that direction? >> i haven't. it's hard to come to a resolution when one of the parties is not around. the president is on the campaign trail again -- >> you are referring to his trip on friday to pennsylvania? >> right. you have to have presidential leader help to do big things. that's what we need right now. obviously, republicans are ready to go to work, ready to solve the issue of the fiscal cliff. what the president wants to do, however, is to raise taxes on small businesses, almost 1

million small businesses who employ 25% of the workforce. that's his proposal. republicans cannot be for that. the president said in his press conference, right after the election, his number-1 priority will be jobs and the economy. we agree with that. but your number-1 priority is jobs and the economy you don't grow the economy to create jobs by raising taxes on small businesses, the people who create the jobs. >> white house press secretary today, jay carney said when he was asked when the next meeting would be, the answer was, it would come, quote at the appropriate time. >> well, nobody know what is that means -- >> no! that's my point. is that -- is that, you know -- look, all of have you had a vacation, i refer, to while you are campaigning the last 3 months. have you known about this fiscal cliff for a year and-a-half. now the president's going out, friday, to do, as you say, campaigning. the press secretary says there will be a meeting between the leaders at the appropriate time. that seems like it's right now. >> it does. to me, what you are seeing with the president and the democrats,

is sort of an attempt to run out the clock. i think they think they gain leverage if the pressure builds. you are hearing a lot of prominent democrats saying, we should go over the fiscal cliff and let the taxes go up, which would be a huge mistake, in terms of the economy. we have lots of analysts and economists who have said fthat ha you will reduce economic growth. you will lose jobs and you will lower take-home pay for americans. it is a big mistake. the president knew that in 2010, when the economy was weak. it is weaker now than it was. >> let me tell you, the debt ceiling of $16.3 trillion. we'll hit that at the end of december. the treasury can do fainationling until we are out of money -- or credit, in when the americans are expected to pay the tax refunds and there will be no money to pay the

quote, tax refunds. >> the democrats want to fold the debt ceiling into the year-end fiscal cliff negotiations. but as you pointed out, i mean, this debt ceiling is, $16.4 trillion that you are going to exceed and they will use, quote extraordinary measures or tools -- >> that's cooking the books. let's face it -- if you don't have any more money and you -- you have no more money and you can't borrow, you have no credit and you can get an extra two months, that means you are cooking the books. >> republicans have said, we are willing to work on the debt ceiling, all of those things. but we have to do something about the cause of the debt. that's runaway federal spending. >> according to the democrats, they want the taxes to go up on the rich, over $250,000, which means there would be enough money to run the government for eight or nine day, leaving 357 days unfunded. we have our structural problem. it solves the problems for eight

or nine days. do they say anything about that? >> no. really, if you raise taxes on people who create jobs, i mean, they think you are going to get more revenue. you get $68 billion, to fund the government less than a week. but you give all of that revenue back, in the form of lower economic growth. i mean, you are going to lose growth in the economy -- >> but even i. that's economic growth. >> even if you give it to them, give them the money, still, you only fund eight days. if you let them tack the rich, have you eight days and have you the -- you have the same infrastructure and the same structure of the country, unless we do something serious, we are cooked. >> right. we can't -- republicans cannot t involve entitlements -- >> sore something. >> you have to have it on the table. so far, the president's been unwilling to lod that issue. i know a lot of his outside groups and allies in congress don't want him to take leadership on entitlements, but if you don't deal with that, you

haven't done anything to solve the problem. you can raise taxes on the rich. what if you gets the revenue fund the government for less than a week. >> people don't realize, in the fight over funding, taxing the rich, it is not going to change our problem, at all. >> it does. it's a short-term, it sounds popular, politically, maybes. but it doesn't solve the problem. the american people want us to solve the problem, that requires presidential leadership. >> one quick question, we have a new member of the south dakota hall of fame, your father. that's some good news. good for your father. >> yeah, it is. he will be 93 next month. he had a great career, high school, college, a three-year starter at the university of min min -- university of minnesota. and a world war ii fighter pilot. he was out here a few years ago. >> that's always fun. we have to end on that good note. thank you. >> now the controversy over the benghazi attack.

senate minority whip jon kyl going on the record saying it's a coverup. senator, nice to see you, sir. >> thank you. >> why do you think so many republican senators are interested in benghazi, democrats aren't? some news organizations are, some are not. >> well, it's a bad story for the administration. so if you are a friend of the administration or a supporter, you want to suibly mate the story. if you are a republican, you want to know what are the facts? why did this end up the way it did? americans were killed. there were calls for help. there were warnings for a need for security. unanswered. what happened? who made the decisions? you have had a couple of people take responsibility, the secretary of state and the president. what does taking responsibility mean? it mean, first of all, acknowledging what happened. so far, this administration has -- i will say it -- been engaged in a coverup. >> why is it so hard to get information? is it because it was election season and the house and senate

has been out campaigning, the president's outs campaigning? we are two-plus months into this. this is, for lack of a better word, four homicides. >> i think have you it right. for a while, attention was focused on the presidential campaign. the administration succeeded in running the clock out, inesque, not letting the story get out until after the campaign. but remember, we were going to get a full report right after the campaign. it is coming on december, there is still no report for something that happened in september. there is a reason why the informs isn't coming out. it's because the administration doesn't want it to come out. they can be pretty effective at slow-rolling everybody, changing their stories and hiding behind there is an fbi investigation going on so we can't talk about it. >> what i don't like -- maybe i am wrong, it seems that a lot of the discussion that does come up here is done behind closed doors. i am always suspicious that things are overclassified and sort of a way to protect the american people from hearing

some of the information t. really isn't classified. am i wrong? >> i watch you religiously. you make that point every time. >> you are right except that there are some sources and methods that have to be -- >> some -- >> protected. classified. >> i understand, some. >> but not nearly to the extent that it has been done here. much of this could be put in the open. but they start with the classified hearings and hopefully, tell come to open hearings and open testimony by the administration officials. they have to stop hiding behind the notion of an fbi investigation. this was an act of war. this wasn't just a crime committed. at some point, it is fin for the fbi to have a matter under investigation. but the american people have a right to know what happened here, when the secretary of state and the president of the united states have both taken responsibility... for the death of these four people. now ambassador rice has issued a statement saying she was wrong in what she told the american people on five television

stations on -- what it was -- five days after september 11? >> would you be -- i realize that you are leaving the united states senate approximate won't be voting on voting on the nexty of state. but today, secretary -- amp bass dorrice was here and she spoke to three u.s. senator it's mccain, graham and iiot and senator lieberman. they are not satisfied. senator lieberman seems satisfied, all done behind closed doors. nonetheless. but your thoughts? >> obviously, she has to tell her story, publicly. the big thing she has to explain why as intelligentaise person as she is in a prominent position, having full access to our national intelligence and this was hid fren her -- she nevertheless made the statement he did. she now acknowledges it was wrong. surely, she had some inkling this wasn't what happened. surely, he read the intelligence information before she went on

and spoke to the american people. apparently norks we are getting information about the intelligence and what it contained. now have you had three different conflicting stories toze who did what, when, within the secretary of state office, the white house, the intelligence community. obviously, we are to get to the bottom of t. it is not all about ambassador rice. this is the white house operation, the press shop, the political operation, the president himself and the secretary of state, who does have a responsibility for security at the embassies. >> fiscal cliff. house republicans are very important decision. democrats here in the united states and the president. do the senate republicans have any sort of active role in the discussion on the fiscal cliff? >> yes. obviously, we are leaving it to speaker john boehner and the house. the republican negotiating position and the president representing the democrats in the house and the senate. to make the -- to present the --

their conclusions to the rest of us to evaluate and vote on. but it has to be voted on in the house of representatives. the republican house members need to support it for it to pass. in the senate, it is not just enough for 51 democratic senators to be supportive. the rules permit the minority to have some rights -- until the rules are changed. as a result, we do have a voice. it has to be something that is acceptable to the senate republicans, as well as house republicans. >> have you seen any indication that senator harry reid wants to cut -- any spending? >> no. >> none? >> you never get him to talk about reducing spenning by a dime. it's always about adding revenue. they are not even satisfied to have more money. they have to specify where it comes from. rich people have to pay it as a result of an increase in tax rate, otherwise, we don't want it. now, that's -- that's kind of theology, rather than policy, it seems to me. >> senator, thank you. nice to see you, sir. >> thank you. >> straight ahead, another

surprise about obamacare, not a particularly good one. if you are in a certain group, you are about to get stuck with much higher costs. are you in that group? just as the nation is headed full speed toward the fiscal cliff, what is president obama doing? he is headed out of tab. -- out of town. but he's not the only one. is anyone in washington working on a solution? if you like ghost story, stay tuned for a real-life ghost story. card hassles?

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and checks right from your smartphone. get rid of prepaid problems. get chase liquid. >> greta: many young audits are about to feel the pain of obamacare big time. if you're between 18 and 24 years old, the healthcare law will unfairly stick you with higher premiums. dennis, how is that younger

people in this age group are hit harder, or higher premiums? >> so obamacare has new rules going in in 2014, and actturarial firm studied, this and the young will bear a bigger burden of the cost increases. 18 to 24 years old, your premium costs could go up 45% in 2014. 25-29, your premium could go up 35% more. if you're 50, your costs will fall 5%. over 60, down 13%. the elderly healthcare costs are five times to six times as high as a cost for a 20-year-old, yet we're giving them price breaks -- i say them, me -- charging more to younger people, yet older people earn far more.

>> greta: if i was 18 or 19 years old, i wish, why in the world would i buy healthcare? because i can pay the penalty of about $700, and should i get sick i can always go out and buy insurance because i can get it for a pre-existing problem. >> exactly. >> greta: and if i don't buy into that pool, that reduces the entire pool to keep the cost down for everybody. >> bingo. where he need the young involved in the insurance pool to help pay so it spreads the cost outright. they're 31% of the market. 40% of the uninsured in this country are 18 to 30 years old, 18 to 34. okay? let's take the case of the 22-year-old waitress that's in a forbes.com article based on the actuarial firm's study. the individual policy, not a work policy, $2,068. obamacare in 2014 lives that to $3,000 for this young

22-year-old, a 45% increase. now average medical costs of a 20-year-old, someone in that age rage, $1600 a year. the penalty kicks in at 2016. the firm that ran these numbers said half a million, people in their 20s, will quit insurance as a result when they see a big price increase, they'll decide, i'll wait f , if i get hit by a bus, i'll buy insurance afterwards. this is a mess for the system. young, healthy people, that don't cost a lot, contributing to the system, where we need to take down the cost of the elderly care. >> greta: you referred to this as a, quote, new rule. i take it this was not in the original law that they voted on capitol hill, that this is something that hhs has added into it, and that's irony of it, that whatever they voted on, it's still being created now. >> even the bill, which i think ran 2,000 pages, i mean pelosi

admitted in congress, after we vote to approve it, well, then we'll read it. all the rules come out. here's the reason for the rules. in 42 states in this country you're allowed as an insurer to charge an old person five times more, or even more than that, you charge a young person for the same insurance coverage, because the older person has five times as much cost in their healthcare coverage. they get sick a lot more than someone in their 20s. the obamacare rule comes along and says that even 42 states allow five times as much for an old as one, you'll have to do it only three times. you cannot charge elderly people under obamacare any more than three times as much as you charge a young person in their 20s. that changed from five times as much that 42 states allowed to only three times as much is forcing this 45% increase on people 18-24 years old, or whatever the chart showed. >> greta: you say they're new rules. this is what hhs has created? >> goes into effect under

obamacare in 2014. it's set there. there might be a position to change that 5-1, 3-1, go back up, but so far obamacare has said 5-1. it sounds good politics, we won't let insurers charge more for the elderly people. >> greta: and the younger people pick it up. >> and 60% voted for obama! >> greta: dennis, thank you. >> thank you. >> greta: coming up, we're bumping up against the national debt ceiling. what are the president and politicians doing? they're leaving for town. also, can companies survive if the plunge happens off the fiscal cliff? hear how one businessman is hear how one businessman is getting ready. having you ship my gifts couldn't be easier. well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and a santa to boot! [ chuckles ] right, baby. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that.

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his own personal approach to the short and long-term fiscal challenges we face. in other words, rather than sitting down with lawmakers of both parties and working out an agreement, he's back on the campaign trail, presumably with the same old talking points that we're all quite familiar with. >> greta: senate minority leader mitch mcconnell blasting president obama for leaving washington during a crisis, but the president's not the only one taking his fiscal cliff show on the road. house republicans are also planning to tour the country taking their message to small businesses. so why isn't anyone staying in washington to get the job done? joining us our political panel, rick klein, bob kousa and byron york. byron, where is everybody? >> we don't want to be around the table, trying to hammer something out. i kind of agree with senator mcconnell that the president is going to do a bunch of talking points, go up to pennsylvania, and i think go to the manufacturer of tinker toys.

so it should be a nice photo op and everything, but won't get anything done. also the president campaigned on a platform of raising taxes. that's kind of unusual that he did it, and he won. so he already has a victory to say, look -- >> greta: he has a victory, but we still have a fiscal cliff problem. he may have his political victory, but we still have the problem. >> yeah, we do, but congress has a nasty habit of procrastination, and this is no exception. you need christmas, exhaustion to play a role here, where members are tired and want to go home to get christmas gifts for their families. i don't think you'll see a deal until after christmas. >> greta: they knew about this problem in august of 12. that'2011. that's a year and a half.

are we doing our job in this matters to a lot of american people. >> yeah. >> and they designed the fiscal cliff to be this point that -- pivot point where people would negotiate up to it. i think what's interesting here, you know, there's an outside gain in politics and an inside gain. now you've got the president going out, playing the outside game, trying to bring pressure outside in, when this is going tto be settled inside. one by one, working with members of congress. if you've seen the movie "lincoln," that's exactly what he does in the new spielberg movie, he has to work in the real world of politics. >> greta: what does president obama gain by being out of town, what do the republicans gain for being out of town, when they need to be sitting around the table, number one? even jay carney says they'll meet, quote, at the appropriate time," which i thought was rather offensive, whatever that means. >> the republican thing is me to-i mean. >> greta: you too, care? >> there's no single leader of

the republican party, no way they can match the effect that the president will get. the thing -- >> greta: i'd show up at the gate, the door. >> these guys have done this before. all the same people have sat around trying to make a really big deal and came away with a bitter feeling about it all. >> greta: get over it. that's your job. get over it. >> yeah, but remember that president obama said you can't change washington from the inside, so i guess he has to go outside. in all honesty, they've been discussing these issues. they could get a deal in two or three days. these are not issues. it's political will. it's convincing members. this will be one of the toughest votes we've seen in decades, whenever some deal comes to the house and senate floors. >> greta: how about the debt ceiling? >> that's brought back into this. we'll do it again in the spring. democrats say it has to be part of the negotiatek now, because we don't want to go back to all of this again. >> greta: we hit the debt

ceiling at the end of december when they're home, so they want to do it now so they don't have to come back at the end of the year. >> it's a different dynamic, republicans are willing to play more around the debt ceiling. that's one reasons the democrats want to take care of it now. republicans would rather leave that for later. >> the story is going to be, i think, it's going to shift a little bit from republicans trying to make their way toward more revenues or agreeing to a higher tax rate for the top earners to democrats trying to do something about spending. i mean, there are a number of democrats who say we won, we won on a platform of raising taxes. we did not win on a platform of big across the board spending, entitlement cuts. so we're not going to go there. >> the problem is, give them -- if you factor into it, hip pottically give them a tax raise, that's enough for eight days.

it doesn't change that. i don't understand why they don't care about that? >> now democrats are saying social security should not be on the table. some democrats say medicare should not be on the table. republicans aren't going to give away taxes, whether it's rates or withholdings unless they get meaningful entitlement reforms. >> i think for the piece of the tax fight that matters here it's a matter of principle. >> greta: it's called grudge. >> no. it's called winning. he campaigned on this around the country. to back away from that -- >> greta: even if he gets it, it's doesn't the problem. that's the irony. >> you need a lot of pieces. this is the one critical piece from the democrats' perspective. >> he did not campaign on solving the long-term problem. if people wanted to do that, they could have elected paul ryan they did. >> he did campaign on it, the tax base and -- >> greta: it's sort part of the

job, leadership for all of them, economic stewardship of the country. i mean, it's a little bit part of the job. >> the whole job. that's what we're they're here to do. >> greta: i'm being sarcastic. >> that's what bill woodward said, that clinton got it done. he can't lose this negotiation after winning re-election. >> we have by washington standards a long time to nothing out. this next month will go by really slowly. >> greta: the problem is we do need tax code reform, both democrats and republicans, and they won't do that in the next month. they've known for a year and a half this problem would arise. that's where i go back, have we held their feet to the fire? they aren't going to solve the problem and have known about it and haven't done it. >> that's right. they'll put a structure in place to get it done early. >> greta: very good at that. >> there's no doubt there's republican crumbling i think on the highest tax rate.

you'll see some change on that. >> greta: gentlemen, thank you. or actually stand by. up next, a look ahead to 2016. are there some big players under the radar, names you might not expect or didn't think about. the panelists make their picks. that's next. in two minutes, do you believe in ghosts? before you answer that question, you have to see more of the of s video. that's two minutes away. this holiday, share everything. share "not even close." share "you owe me..." share "just right." the share everything plan. sharable data across 10 devices with unlimited talk and text. get a droid razr m by motorola for $49.99.

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>> from america's news headquarters, i'm ainsley earhardt. more than 200,000 people gathering in tehere square in cairo, demanding the egyptian president, muhammad morsi revoke the new, sweeping powers he gave himself last week. they accuse him of trying to become a dictator like his predecessor, hosni mubarak. eight days of protests toppled mubarak's three-decades-old regime. people snatching up latry -- lottery tickets with the jackpot a whopping $500 million. the second largest one in lottery history. only mind the $656 million mega-millions prize back in march, you might remember. i'm ainsley earhardt. now back to "on the record." thanks for waffing fox. to "on h

ingredienta. >> greta: 2016, it's time to start watching potential candidates. there are the predictables, but there might be surprises. who might the surprises be? we're back with our political panel. rick, surprises in 2016, your thoughts? >> i have 2013 on the mind right now a little bit. chris christie is clearly in the top ranks of contenders. he got a 70% approval rating in new jersey. the national numbers are quite a bit different, particularly after his embrace of president obama, but that of politics being local, building that forward, if he's able to win re-election in new jersey, he goes in with a head of steam into the next presidential cycle. a lot of folks on the democratic side are looking to the governors. one senator i'm keeping an eye on, particularly as the fiscal negotiations go on, and that's mark warner, senator from virginia. he bowed out of the possibility of running for governor in virginia, an office he held in

the past. he's a possible leader on the fiscal cliff talks right now, leave him well positioned, someone to keep an eye on. >> greta: bob? >> two women. senator kirsten gillibrand from new york is all for hillary clinton in 2016, but if hillary clinton doesn't run, watch gillrgillibrand. she has those aspirations. on the republican side, nick kid smoking haley from south carolina, 40 years old. the republicans need a new face, and this would be a change of direction. she literally is respected by the right. >> i wrote down a list of 13 republican names -- by the way, when senator thune was walking out, i said would you like me to add your name to this list? he said no. >> cross one out. >> i pick scott walker actually, scott walker, governor of wisconsin, is the guy who actually did what a lot of republicans want to do, which is he took on the entrenched interests behind the spending

that's killing a lot of states, is hurting our own federal deficit. so i think scott walker is someone who can say, look, i've done this, it was not easy, and i succeeded. as far as democrats are concerned, it's really a far less wide-open race, i think, than with republicans, simply because you have this hillary clinton decision out there, whether she does or doesn't. if she doesn't, i think you might have some democrats saying, you know, we won with the senator the last timing, but that's really, really unusual. governors are good. and martin o'malley of maryland, brian schweitzer of montana are two possibilities. >> greta: i think governor o'malley, a big choice, obviously someone people have their eyes on, but also cory booker, a mayor on the democratic side from newark, new jersey. we'll see a lot of corey booker. on the republican side, a woman, governor, suzanna martinez from the state of new mexico. i think she's someone to keep our eye on, because i think her speech at the republican

national convention was one that wowed somebody. >> open races on both sides, which makes it fun. >> or joe biden. >> greta: that's right. he said he might run as well. do you think hillary's in? >> gosh, you know, she would be the same age as ronald reagan when he was -- when he became president, a couple months younger. it's entirely possible. i mean, everybody says how tired she looks now. she's got a while to take naps, rest some. joe biden would be 74 years old on inauguration day, by far the oldest president. >> greta: panel, thank you. straight ahead, can america's small businesses survive a plunge off the fiscal cliff? plunge off the fiscal cliff? we ask one [ male announcer ] red lobster's hitting the streets to tell real people about our new 15 under $15 menu. oh my goodness! oh my gosh, this looks amazing! [ male announcer ] our new maine stays! 15entrees under $15, seafood, chicken and more! oothe tilapiawith roastedegetab! i'm actually looking at the wo grilled chicken with portobello wine sauce. at pork chop was great! no more fast food friday's!

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>> we are seeing it already? >> you are already seeing it. >> budget cuts are coming in to play. we are getting calls from troops and things that, you know, where can i buy your product? i need to buy 144 of them. we are accepting them it places where they can purchase it because they don't have the budget -- they need the product. the government's not giving them the budget to buy it. >> reporter: you seem to make the military like you make the outdoor sport, hiking, that sort of stuff? you make steuba -- scuba diving lights. what percentage is military? >> military's about 20% of our business. >> reporter: 20%? is it fair to say, that was one of the -- going to be hardest hit? >> yes. yeah. we are -- the uncrept in that arena is -- we are not sure what

direction to go. >> reporter: what do you think could be your greatest challenge here? >> the greatest challenge is to continue to forecast, you know, the products we need and be able to deliver on time to our retailers. you know, with this uncertainty, it is going to be hard, you know, to really -- forecast out. >> reporter: do you feel kind of permanenty that maybe the folks in washington need to really dig deep and better understand what businessmen just like you across this country are actually facing when you look at cuts, the health care, the military sequestration context in your case? >> yes. i think they really need to look at the american manufacturer, which is few and far between any more t. really affects us -- and anybody trying to make goodings in america. we are trying to bring the economy back, yet, they are making it for -- it more

difficult for us. >> reporter: the reality of the fiscal cliff, could you have to cut jobs? >> yes. we are worried about that. if production has to slow down and the orders stop coming in from people not spending the extra money for our products, yes. >> reporter: do you have any idea, any indication of what will -- will determine that? what percentage you could be looking at? >> at this time, no. we will just have to watch it closely, come january. you know, we are in the holiday season now, which is a very busy time for us. but after that, i we will have to watch it closely and see where we go. we don't want to lose any of our 116 employees because we value them greatly. >> coming up, how is the fiscal cliff like a horror movie? the answer, coming up next. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf.

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>> greta: 11:00 is almost here, flash studio lights, it's time for last call. abc's jake tapper says he has an idea how the fiscal crisis will end. here is what he told steven colbert. >> what is everybody talking about? fiscal cliff? >> yes. >> trillions of dollars of spending cuts and tax increases that are going to happen when the ball drops on new year's eve unless president obama and congress come to a compromise. >> all right. so we're all doomed?. >> it's like the movie "saw" you have to cutoff your arm or die. so the day will come, they'll cutoffhe